Answer TWO of the following as comments below:
1. In Act 2, Scene 4, when
Regan and Goneril decide to openly defy their father’s demands, Lear exclaims
“I gave you all” (52). This echoes his
later line in the storm when he proclaims, “I am a man/More sinned against than
sinning” (58). Do we agree with Lear
here; has he been a good and selfless father?
Or is this line simply meant to be read, “whatever I did in the past, I
finally gave you all my land, so what more do you want?” Do we have any sympathy for the daughters
here? Is this a betrayal—or an ironic
reversal of the events of Act 1, Scene 1?
2. How do you account for
the extreme cruelty of Act 3, Scene 7, where both sisters and Regan’s husband,
Cornwall, gang up on Gloucester? Though
the sisters may have seemed cruel earlier in the play, here they are truly
sadistic, taking glee in plucking Gloucester’s beard and removing his
eyes. Why do they do this, and how
might earlier scenes have prepared us for this (or explained their
motivation)?
3. Act 3, Scene 6, the
so-called “trial scene” only appears in the early quarto version of the
play (published in a cheap version around 1608). The authentic version of Lear was published in the
complete version of Shakespeare’s works, the Folio version, in 1623, and this
entire scene is missing. Either
Shakespeare thought the better of it and cut it or it simply got lost in
translation. The editors of this
version, though following the Folio, decided to reinstate it. What do we gain from having this scene in the
play? Does it underline or foreshadow
important themes or events in the play?
Or is it too much of the same, including a lot of “nothing”? Consider also how the Manga King Lear uses
but considerably shortens this scene.
4. What do you think
Edgar’s role in the play is as “Poor Tom”?
Though he has some of the craziest lines in the play, he is clearly
acting, as he pops out of character at the End of 3.6 to talk to the
audience. Is he a foil to Lear? A rival to the Fool? Or a mirror to Cordelia (especially if she is
the Fool)? Like Jacques, is he essential to the story, or is he
simply a minor embellishment, fascinating but arguably
1. I actually feel very little sympathy for Lear; he’s quick to disown his daughters, paranoid about his wife’s fidelity, and seems to feel more love for his Fool than his family. In Act 3, Scene 4, when Lear meets Poor Tom he asks him, “Didst thou give all to thy daughters, and art thou come to this?” Much like he did in his statement in Act 2, Scene 4, Lear blames all his problems on the ungrateful nature of his daughters, claiming that he has given them everything.
ReplyDeleteAlthough Shakespeare gives us very little backstory from which to judge Lear’s treatment of his daughters or their cruelty, Lear’s harsh treatment of Cordelia, Goneril, and Regan leads me to believe that many of their actions are justified. Personally, I think the true victims of King Lear are the King’s court and the three sisters.
2. I think a lot of Regan and Cornwall’s cruelty comes from his perceived betrayal and the loyalty he has shown Lear. Also, there may be some type of jealousy from Regan towards Gloucester for Edgar’s position as her “father’s godson” (2.1.92).
However, I will fully admit that I have no idea why Regan and Goneril suddenly become so cruel. I felt much more sympathetic for Gloucester in the manga, but the play has made me like Cornwall for some strange reason. I like the relationship between him and Regan, so I didn't really feel sorry for Gloucester in this scene. Perhaps I’m just a bad person?
Ha, no, you're not a bad person--I feel much the same. That is, the more I read this play, the less sympathy I feel for Lear and the more for the sisters--though this scene is problematic. I wonder if they suddenly get a power trip and realize they can indulge in all their revenge fantasies, and since they can't actually hurt their father, they can symbolically do it upon Gloucester (who, besides being his godson, does appear to be leading a rebellion against them). I think, too, this is the first time they might ever live without his shadow looming over them, and now Gloucester looks like he's trying to take it all away. So they become unhinged and decide that it's either them or him. Still, it's a ghastly scene!
ReplyDelete1. Not necessarily. He thinks he is a good father--why else might the court show loyalty to him instead of his daughters, or France over them? If he asks "what more?" they could have chosen that moment to voice all of their anger and reasons. but they don't. I think it shows a bit more of personal sympathy for the sisters, but the way they respond is ultimately as out-of-line as his treatment of them. He sees their treatment as a betrayal to him--in Shakespeare's day a family was in the purview of Daddy no matter what. As a comparison, Jessica's actions were a betrayal of Shylock; and in Romeo and Juliet, Lord Capulet is angry that Juliet would dare defy his wishes and lashes out at her. And in a way it is a betrayal. But as far as abusive relationships go, it's a pretty ironic reversal.
ReplyDelete2. Who knows how they see Lear? From his actions, he may have been a tyrant for all we know. Given that, it wouldn't be a wonder if they became as despotic as he; Gloucester's a proxy because he willingly went against them for their dad. They do it because as far as they're concerned, THEY are the true rulers now; Lear gave up his right to rule when he divided his lands. Revenge on a traitor is theirs even if there aren't proper channels to go through, even if they wanted to (which they don't). Also, given his fatherly affections, how would he have treated their husbands? In the beginning, it's stated that Albany was favored over Cornwall. Cornwall may feel as unfavored as the elder sisters, and so sides with them. Behind the scenes, Shakespeare may be playing to his audience because although France is part of the "good guys" in-story, there's still the ancestral rivalry between England and France to consider--so Gloucester is a traitor for that reason. As for where their actions might be foreshadowed, consider that Cornwall had Kent put in the stocks for attacking his sister-in-law's manservant. Oswald was only following orders, and Kent was pretty much a back-talker to Cornwall, so in Cornwall's eyes, he was justified in preserving the peace by locking up such an angry man. But due to the fact that the play takes Lear's side as the "good guy," Cornwall's "mistreatment" of the "true king's" servant is also out-of-line--and what he does is matched by the woman he married, considering how loyal she seems to be to him before he dies. Also, Goneril turned Lear out of her house--considering the above and the importance of hospitality, she pretty much threw him to the storm, and that in itself also foreshadows their cruelty later.
Jessie Randall
1. Considering that Shakespeare opens the play by showing us Lear’s rashness and intolerable and ridiculous tendencies, but then later shows Goneril and Regan plotting against Lear and being cruel to him; I think that we are supposed to see both sides of this quarrel. We see that Lear has given up his land to them, and just wants to live the remainder life in peace (with his 100 soldiers) with his daughters. We also see that (possibly) his soldiers are causing a lot of trouble and inconvenience for Goneril, yet he refuses to budge or compromise. On the other hand, we see the sisters put through the “game” in Act 1 Scene 1, having to comply with Lears’ outrageous requests, and we can sympathize with the sisters on that front. But we also see the sisters plotting against Lear and wanting to make his life a living hell. Maybe we are supposed to take it that the sisters are only acting out because they had to deal with Lear their whole lives? I think Shakespeare loves to do this, to leave the audience to decide who is right and who is wrong.
ReplyDelete2. I was leaning more on the sisters’ side of things; especially as it seems that Lear gets crazier every with every Act. But then when the eye scene happened, I left their side pretty quickly. That was super fucked up, to say the least. Even though I knew it was coming, since the graphic novel included it, it was still shocking to read. Their downright evilness comes out in this scene, and I don’t know how we are supposed to be sympathetic for them after they pluck a guys eyes out. But, Lear is acting senile and crazy, so both sides kind of suck to be on. This play is a cluster fuck of events. No wonder the graphic novel was confusing to me, the play is freaking crazy! In the best kind of Shakespeare way, of course.
-Tori
2. I did notice that they slowly became more and more hostile throughout the play. First it seems more like they are just verbally talking behind their fathers back, and always have been whether he was an abusive father or not. Lear is clearly losing his mind, and so are Goneril and Regan. Perhaps, at one time, Lear did these terrible things to them? Obviously he didn't pluck their eyes out, but perhaps through this violence we are seeing maybe something Lear did to them?
ReplyDelete4. In the play, Lear is losing his mind and so are the sisters. I feel that Edgar's role is the reverse to the insanity that seems to be going on in the play. Most of the characters are being mislead and/or are going insane, but Poor Tom (who everyone thinks is nuts) is actually quite sane. Like Jaquess, I feel that he should be in a different play. Jaquess seemed to be the "Squidward" of As You Like It. Everyone was so happy, and he didn't even pretend to be having a good time. I feel Edgar is doing the opposite. He sees everyone is just losing their minds, so he 'pretends' to do so. Becoming Poor Tom gives him the ability to walk amongst Lear, Kent, and the Fool and not lose his own mind. It may help him actually keep his identity and his sanity.
-Karri Wheat
1. If act 1, the love test of Lear or the treatment of Cordelia when in my opinion did very well make her point in how she loves him more but, because she chose not to do so by playing his game and on his terms therefore, she his most prized daughter was banished is any indication of how Lear raised his children then for him I have no sympathy. Also, when in act 1 scene 4 Gnoeril approaches Lear complaining of his men and how they are not respecting her palace and how she is upset as to how Lear himself treats her servants (striking them) and he blows her off by asking “Am I not Lear?” “Who are you?”pretty much was his reaction. Not that I have any sympathy really for Gnoeril other than the fact that if someone were a guest in my house and I approached them with a complaint I would expect them to take head or go packing as well.
ReplyDelete2. Regan and Cornwall repeatedly ask, “Gloucester Wherefore to Dover? When he finally answers his reply is his doom. He tells them that he sent Lear to Dover “because I would not see thy cruel nails pluck out his poor eyes, nor thy fierce sister in his anointed flesh stick boarish fangs...But I shall see the winged vengeance overtake such children.” His reply is rather cocky for such a wound up foe and Cornwall replies, “See’t shalt thou never. Fellows hold the chair, upon these eyes of thine I’ll set my foot.” He aims to make sure that Gloucester will never see with his eyes their defeat and for saving King Lear’s eyes (according to his own analogy) he loses his own or takes Lear’s place for betraying them(Cornwall, Goneril, and Regan).
Lisa Edge
1. I'm starting to think that King Lear is a narcissist, and his older daughter's selfish and cruel behavior is a result of their unhealthy relationship with him. Lear favors Cordelia I think because she reminds him of himself. So the other two resent her for the favored treatment whenever they're always required to play his games. I sympathize with them, but Regan more so. I don't entirely blame them for their resentment. Lear has given up his throne but still expects to act and be treated like a King. He has to have everyone's attention and affection somehow, and he won't be cast aside. Goneril seems like she was waiting for the moment when she could get her dad out of the picture. She also appears to plant ideas in Regan's mind about their father's senility, but it doesn't take much to turn her Goneril's way. They turn into heartless, conniving wenches.
ReplyDelete2. I can't account for Cornwall's character because we don't really get to know him, but I'm not entirely surprised by Regan and Goneril. Goneril makes a flippant suggestion before leaving, and Regan and her husband take it to heart. I think they're trying to make an example of Gloucester for anyone who wishes to remain loyal to King Lear. Kind of a 'see what we did to Edmund's dad? And we liked him.' I also think that on some level Cornwall and Regan are taking their frustration with King Lear out on Gloucester too. They can't quite do this to King Lear yet so they'll torture his loyal friend. Regan has additional familial motivation because Gloucester is a father also. She's doing to him what she would like to be doing to her own father. What's kinda funny is that if she had married Edmund, he would be her father.
Kim McCreery
ReplyDelete1. I am having a hard time feeling any sympathy for King Lear. I feel that throughout the whole play he is desperately trying to make his daughters feel bad for all of his problems and is quick to blame his problems on him. I also felt that he kind of expected too much out of them in the first place. To me it honestly sounded like he was whining and trying to play the sympathy card. Although, there is not a lot of proof of this, I think that King Lear is a cruel father and now he is trying to buy back his daughters buy offering them his treasures and land.
4. I think that Edgar’s role in the play is the constant in the play. While everyone else’s character is border line insane he is the common ground that brings things back into check and the realization of what is normal. He is very much so similar to Jaquess in “As You Like It”. Edgar plays many roles in this play which makes it hard to characterize him into one category. He becomes Poor Tom in an effort to keep up with his many roles and be around King Lear. I feel that he might be a rival to the Fool because he plays it so well and he is doing it on purpose.
Kayci Snider
Melissa Williams
ReplyDeleteDr. Grasso
Shakespeare
March 4, 2014
King Lear Acts 2 & 3
1. Lear really needs to calm down, however, I do understand his grievance. His son thinks that Lear should take fifty men with him and go see his daughter, but Lear sees losing fifty soldiers as being too much when they need to stay in the kingdom. On page 51, Lear goes stupidly cruel in stating that his daughter Goneril nothing more than a plague to terrorize him and tells her that henceforth he refuses to ever see her.
2. If we go back and read the end of scene 6, it sounds very much like Gloucester knew about a coup to take out King Lear. However, the way that he stated it sounded like he intended to join this coup. So, perhaps rather than unfounded hatred, the girls planned to gain their insane father’s affection by doing something just as insane and as cruel as he was.
1.) I don’t agree with Lear being a selfless father in this scene. If he gave his daughter everything, only to use that against them constantly, then in reality he gave them nothing. The fact that he expects something from his “giving” shows that it was not a selfless act; therefore I don’t see it as him being a good selfless father. I don’t think he’s meant to be read in an “ultimately I gave you everything what more do you want for me to pay you back my wrongs?” sort of way either. He doesn’t seem to be asking them what more do you want, and they don’t seem to be looking for that. Neither side is looking for his past actions to be repaid at this point in life. At this point I begin to lose sympathy for Regan and Goneril because they begin to relentlessly attack him and strip him of what he has left. He acts like a child, and that is annoying, but again he is acting like a child and they need to be more considerate of his state of mind. Up to this point I sympathized with them, but now I feel they begin to take their “revenge” too far. I don’t see them as betraying him; instead it really is an ironic reversal of the events of Act 1, Scene 1.
ReplyDelete2.) I don’t think you can properly account for their cruelty. Ultimately they are all being wronged and used by Edmond and that’s what leads them to be so evil. I think they take out all their anger on Gloucester. They want to make him suffer for the wrongs he did to Edmond, and they want him to suffer for being a “traitor”, although all those ideas came for Edmond who convinced them of all this. So in reality they want revenge on him for things that were not his fault. I found their extreme sadistically cruel behavior to be a surprise. I knew it was coming because we read the Manga King Lear, but before this scene they still seem sympathetically. After this they seem like two idiot girls trying to get back at their dad and get the man they like. The only indication we get about them possibly going over the edge, is the scene were Lear walks out of the house into the storm. They provoke him to the point of him walking out on them. It almost seemed planned like they didn’t want to kick him out so they just poked and prodded until he walked out on his own. But overall I would have seen this extreme action coming from them. However in retrospect it almost seems like it was a matter of time before they hit their breaking point with everything they’ve had to go through.
-Jasmine Q
1) I feel no sympathy for King Lear. He seems to be almost out of control of his emotions, swinging wildly into extreme fits of anger or sadness. In these fits, he makes insane statements and decisions, such as banishing Cordelia, France, and Kent or calling Goneril a terror. I was almost angry when he said "I gave you all!" Yes, you did, now stop being an indian-giver. He says or does when thing then acts petulant when it doesn't go in his favor. I think he is a selfish man, because only someone completely self-centered and deluded could think they were more "sinned upon" than they were sinner.
ReplyDelete4) I felt as though Edgar's role was to be the audiences' "in" to the play. While we watch all the other characters lose their mind or act deceitfully or treacherous, the audience rests assured that Edgar's Poor Tom is only an act. In a way, his "insanity" is the only sense of truth or sanity that we have to rely on throughout the play. He is like our guide, cleverly disguised so as to lead us more efficiently and without the dangers of catching the true insanity around him.